Олексій Дзюба Історії 10 February 2025, 09:02

"What Elon Musk is currently doing with US government agencies, I have been doing for five years." New CEO Techosystem Maksym Bakhmatov - about Ukrainian IT, defense tech after the war, his own salary and, of course, the Kyiv City State Administration

At the end of January, it became known that the technological public association Techosystem had a new CEO, Maksym Bakhmatov. He plans to increase the number of participants from over 100 to 500, open new regional offices, and create a physical space for startups that will become a center for cooperation and exchange of ideas between ecosystem participants. We met with Maksym Bakhmatov and talked about the match with Techosystem, the problems of Ukrainian startups after the end of the war, what Elon Musk needs to learn from a Ukrainian entrepreneur, and the position of mayor of Kyiv, for which he is applying.

The interview has been edited and shortened for clarity.

About Ukrainian IT

— I want to start with the general, and then move on to Techosystem. What general characteristic would you give to today's Ukrainian IT? Roughly speaking, is it in the f*ck or is it holding up?

— I have a feeling that I'm already a bit in the ****. At the same time, we have statistics that, conditionally, 500 new startups appear in Ukraine every year. But, conditionally, the amount of money that is in outsourcing is supposedly decreasing. However, we understand that they are being relocated to Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, etc. and are simply not being imported to Ukraine. I also understand that our defense tech is growing awesomely. There are currently 16 companies in this area in Techosystem.

For the last two weeks, I have been preparing people for the fact that for Ukrainians, ending the war is cool, but for defense tech, it means death. Because the state will not invest 80% in military development.

The state will rebuild and survive. And for startups, there will be a story about entering foreign markets — Europe and the USA. Capitalization and incorporation — there. But there is a moral and ethical aspect here. Any of your investors can say that they want the market and want growth. Russia comes and says that it wants to buy all this. Will you sell your drones and technologies to the Russian Federation? How can we force them not to sell?

Do we know that the three largest drone manufacturers already have companies abroad? We don't know who and what they sell and who controls it. Conventionally, production in Slovakia. Sold to Romania - there resold to Singapore, etc. This is an interesting question, I don't know the answer to it. That's why NATO created its standards so that no one would fight with them and know that these are their weapons.

About Maksym Bakhmatov

Maksym Bakhmatov is a Ukrainian entrepreneur, manager and public figure. He was the founder of Comedy Club UA, CEO of VDNH (2015–2017), Chairman of the Board of Radar Tech (2016–2019) and Managing Partner of UNIT.City (2017–2019). In 2019, he became an advisor to the Mayor of Kyiv on investment and digitalization. In 2020, thanks to his initiative, 4G Internet was launched in the Kyiv Metro. In 2020, he founded the public organization “Transformation Office”.

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— Which Ukrainian IT companies or startups would you single out among others?

— We just had a meeting with the startup HowCow (they help determine the best time to inseminate a cow — ed.). I don’t have a tracker, but the cows will (laughs). There are a lot of cool companies. As for our cluster, I was blown away by how cool medtech is developing. For example, there is a company with 50+ employees, they created a CRM system for dentistry and have about 5,000 clients. And this software is not just for service, but also for purchasing, where the necessary product for purchase is calculated directly by millirams, etc. It really works like in automotive.

Or, for example, a Syrian entrepreneur from Lviv. He created the #1 game of 2021-2022 for the iPad. His team members work from New Zealand and Ecuador, and he is alone in Ukraine.

Of course, there is martial law and war nearby. We understand that there are big players who have solved this situation for themselves and there are smaller players who have nuances. But we are here precisely to ask everyone unpleasant questions. I have been doing this all my life.

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— There is a figure from the Lviv IT Cluster that after the war ends, 19,000 - 75,000 IT workers will leave Ukraine. How would you try to keep them?

— Let's take the simplest example — Israel. There is a state program there called "Return of Jews to the Country." If one of your relatives — even your grandparents — was Jewish, you can get an Israeli passport.

There are 80 million Ukrainians in the world. I want us to have such conditions for development that a hypothetical mother from Chicago would want to move to Poltava. That is, we have to work so that people don't run away, but return.

I say such strange things on purpose, but you won't stop an IT person who can legally go abroad.

We can "slide" to slogans. "You are not a patriot because you escaped," "You are not a patriot because you do not serve," "You are not a patriot because you are alive."

I talk to Israelis and they say that they barely exist in Tel Aviv on $250,000 (we are talking about a family with a child). The state takes half of this amount. Of the remaining $125,000, most of it goes to a car, apartment, insurance, etc. If I receive $100,000 in Ukraine as a Senior, the state takes 5-7% of my income in the form of taxes, and I am such a handsome guy for the rest of the money.

About your technological past

— About your background. In 2016-2019, you were the chairman of the board of the telecom accelerator Radar Tech, and in 2017-2019, you were the managing partner of UNIT.City. What else was there?

— My first company in 2005 was the game accelerator UkrGameExport, the second was Ukrainian German Enterprise with an office in Frankfurt, and the third was Comedy Club UA. That is, my background is first technological, and then everything else.

— In 2019, you left the management of UNIT.City. How do you live?

— I was the managing partner of UNIT.City, the project contract expired. I had five “exits” — UkrGameExport, Radar Tech, Frankfurt Consulting (dealing with cybersecurity), Comedy Club UA, UNIT.City. All of this gave me the opportunity to live.

I always continue to work. I have a consulting business and I help companies develop privately. Conventionally, these are the "oldies" who love and remember me. For example, there was the first time I "hacked" with Sergey Grigorovich (the owner of the company that developed the games Cossacks and STALKER - ed.) at an exhibition in Los Angeles, because I'm a fan of the Strugatsky writers. I told him that he stole their stories and transferred them to Chernobyl. He replied that this was not so. This "hacking" lasted about five years and then they admitted that they were inspired by the Strugatskys.

I also spent a year consulting for the Canadian government. It was a separate project with former Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Kubrakov, dedicated to recovery and transformation. I traveled to all the regions that suffered from the occupation and we had to explain to small communities what to do.

There is also real estate. It is called “flipping” - when you take a neglected property, fix it up and sell it. I am pleased to understand this. I am deeply into the subject and can encourage the foreman not to steal, because I understand where he can do it. In a word, I am a developer.

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— What about investments? Do you have a portfolio in crypto?

— No. I won’t do it until I understand the topic properly. Until a specialist tells me what and why. I haven’t found such a person yet. And until I understand, I won’t invest. I understand that this needs to be dealt with. But there are other, more necessary things. I have a large family. My wife and mother work.

About working at Techosystem

— 153 candidates applied for the position of head of Techosystem. What was your path to the position?

— I upgraded my LinkedIn page. Head hunters wrote to me asking if I was interested in leading the largest IT community. I said I was ready. I had the first interview, then another one with the Nomination Committee, then they voted for me and I won. There was a real competition, which Techosystem paid for.

I had the feeling that my projects were getting in the way of me. Because people on that side thought, why do I need it?

— What are top managers asked at such interviews?

— I won't say who exactly said it, but it was something like this: "You don't have much experience working with startups."

— And you tell him: “Hold my beer”?

— I say so that they can read about my experience and understand everything. My history as a manager bothered me more because people weren't sure that I could really contribute and work. Now I'm showing how much and how I do it.

I force people to physically come to work. Only offline work forces people to grow.

We can maintain balance online. If we really want to make a breakthrough, a person must "boil" in this story. What, Elon Musk, just slept in his office on the couch? The richest person in the world lived at work for 2 months so as not to miss the start of an important project.

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— What do you think of what Musk is doing now?

— Our patrons are trolling me and asking if Musk stole the idea of DOGE (Department of Government Efficiency) from you? It's a mirror story with the "Transformation Office". I understand that a state or a city cannot audit itself. There must be someone independent who will do it. But I, unlike Musk, have been doing this for five years. I tagged him on social networks, but he hasn't responded yet (laughs).

Musk, who finds time for video games and posts on X (Twitter), said his DOGE department works 120 hours a week.

— Musk is “cutting” government spending, but at the same time he will dismantle the established system and government organizations.

— I know for sure that when you don't touch people who have access to big money for a long time, their efficiency drops, and corruption increases. Let's look at the same USAID. I'm not saying that it's great that they "cut" their program, it's bad. But it's bad not because they took away Ukrainian aid, but because for the past 20 years they haven't understood their efficiency. If you spend 50% of the money on reporting, then it's not okay. How to check the efficiency of the work of "bottomless" money?

— Returning to Techosystem. Do you have a salary in this project?

— Yes. Techosystem, as an IT organization, believes, and I support it, that people in it should earn as in the IT industry.

I believe that as the head of a non-profit organization, I have a decent salary.

When they ask me about money in a while, I will show everyone my legal income. Conditionally, my 1-2-3 million a year, which I calmly earn "in the white". Theoretically, no one but me can earn more in Techosystem.

— And practically?

— I can't say. But just to be clear, the CEO, the Board of Directors and the rest don't make money on stories like this.

— You said earlier that you need a team of 20-30 specialists.

— Techosystem has been developing for several years, now there are 13 specialists, some of them will leave, new ones will come. We always need communicators, but no one wants to work with me. My communicators troll me because I make them work for five people, and there is always no money. But I know how to save effectively. It's not very difficult, people just don't like to work very much in general.

Photo — Maksym Bakhmatov and Techosystem Chairman of the Board Oleksandr Yatsenko

— One of the areas of work that you have announced is representative offices in Ukrainian cities to bring local startups closer to Techosystem. Who are the “most technologically advanced” mayors in Ukraine who understand the importance of technology?

— This is Lviv and Andriy Ivanovych Sadovy. I know for sure that Vinnytsia is developing very rapidly. Now they have completed the innovative communal center "Krystal" for 10,000 sq. m. I helped at the beginning of the project. Zhytomyr is also developing very rapidly. Rivne can potentially develop very rapidly. Among other cities, I would single out Dnipro and Kharkiv.

How to put this into practice? For example, we have a partner from Kremenchuk, Poltava region. He says that the city is quite boring. I suggested coming with a conference and he is excited by this idea. All our partners say that they want offline formats to see each other in person. We will make at least 10 contacts per month with our union members.

— Opening a Techosystem office in the USA is another of your ambitions. How will this happen?

— Here we have a startup. One part of it is in Ukraine, the other in the USA. A representative in America offers to help. What do we need? A table, a chair, a “Techosystem” sticker and an LLC (ToV — ed.). I understand how to do it. And all our people will know that when they go to the USA, there will be a person there who will be a little warmer and help with basic needs and meetings.

— There are currently two clusters in Techosystem: Defense Tech (16 companies) and HRTech (12 companies). What other associations would you like to see?

— MedTech is still opening, today we discussed the terms with the 10th company. There will also be EdTech and AgriFood communities. In total, about 4-5 groups. According to our internal documents, there must be at least 10 participants for an association to emerge.

— What is the essence of such clusters?

— When they start to build up, they organize themselves within the cluster in the direction of their specialization. We can't know everything, but they are deeper into the topic.

— Are you interested in the AI cluster?

— I think he will.

— Are you following the story with DeepSeek?

— I read about it. If it's true, then the Chinese are doing great. But I wonder how to measure the effectiveness of this. Now India will join this race and it will be an interesting story.

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About the Kyiv City State Administration and the "Transformation Office"

— About the possible interaction between the "Transformation Office" and Techosystem. How can you cooperate?

— Most of the patrons of the "Transformation Office" are IT professionals. They think critically and understand what KPI is. We have a memorandum with Techosystem that if I participate in the elections for mayor of Kyiv, I will be released for vacation.

I believe that with the Transformation Office and Techosystem we will create compatible projects. There was the first traffic dashboard — we were the first in Ukraine to measure traffic. Now there will be a second similar dashboard and several more IT products. For example, we are being helped by a company from the USA, which spends $8-10 million per month on Facebook advertising. Our pages on social networks organically have 7-10 million contacts every month.

— Are you more focused on your work at Techosystem now?

— The “Transformation Office” is the path of the samurai, it is permanent. We have already analyzed all the Kyiv crap that was there and said that it is crap. And what needs to be done about it. The next level for us is the elections. But now there is a war that can last 1-3-5 years. Therefore, we understand that now we can help the largest Ukrainian startup-skillup-investor ecosystem.

— What areas of startups does Ukraine currently lack the most?

— There is a feeling that we need to go into hardware. Ukraine, theoretically, can be a manufacturer. Ajax Systems is a good example.

I believe that we lack production. Because it is in it that we can involve people without restrictions on age and education.

If, conditionally, everyone needs to raise their salaries sharply now, then not everyone will go to IT. But a conditional woman 55+ will say that she wants to earn 30,000 UAH in Poltava, and this is a lot of money for the city. This is realistic if the person is involved in production.

In this sense, for example, there are 15 years of abandoned industrial zones in Kyiv for development. That is why we explain that there is a small agglomeration (Irpin - Bucha - Vorzel - Brovary), a large one (Zhytomyr - Cherkasy - Chernihiv - Bila Tserkva). In a large agglomeration, where there will be 5-7-10 million people, they should create such a high average standard of living and average income that it would be a driving force for other communities in Ukraine.

— Let's imagine that Maksym Bakhmatov becomes the mayor of Kyiv. How will this improve the lives of Ukrainian IT workers?

— I will make a separate track on digitizing all the crap and turning it into a digital design. Where, for example, I will understand the name of the person responsible for the hole on Nauki Avenue. Then the crew arrives and sticks their QR code. From it I can see who is in charge and who is working. If people know that I see this, they will think that maybe it is better not to steal.

— Does this require a confident team to support you?

— We are talking about the team after the elections. I just write one post on social media and people pull themselves together. This was the case with VDNKh and UNIT.City.

People are always interested in money or fame. I will say that conditionally, I will definitely be able to give 50,000 - 100,000 UAH, bonuses, prizes and the megaproject "Getting Kyiv out of the biggest ass in the world."

We are currently ranked 165th in terms of comfort and safety of life. Damascus, the capital of Syria, is ranked 170th. And it wasn't a full-scale invasion that affected us, because we've been in this position since 2014.

— Are you interested in money or fame?

— Both.

— They often say that "I've already earned my money."

— This is a lie. Because for the money there could be even more projects.

— Will you replace the entire Kyiv City State Administration apparatus like Musk if you come to power?

— I have a ready-made project with Ernst & Young (one of the largest auditors in the world — ed.). Conceptually, you should fire the rascals and leave the bureaucrats, they are important. Then recruit new specialists and re-certify those who are already working. There are decent people in the Kyiv City State Administration. Most of the deputy mayors of Kyiv Klitschko congratulate me on my birthday.

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