Ігор Вишневський Hot News 14 April 2025, 09:00

"Clients forget that we are at war, because for them it looks like business as usual. And this is the highest rating that our location can receive." A big interview with the head of Luxoft Ukraine Olena Samborska

Our conversation with Managing Director at Luxoft Ukraine Olena Samborska began a few months ago with an attempt to get a comment on why the Ukrainian office of the IT giant reduced the employer branding function, which included, among other things, PR and media communications. Ultimately, this function has now been transferred to the global level.

One way or another, this did not prevent us from agreeing to an interview with Ms. Olena on a wide range of issues — the company’s performance and the Ukrainian IT market, the outflow of personnel abroad, cooperation with government agencies, reservations and veteran policy, the trend towards returning to offices and its (ir)relevance for Ukraine, as well as the prospects for Ukrainian IT in the context of global turbulence and on the verge of a global recession. All this and more — below.

«Perhaps these services will not be represented in such large numbers, but they should be at the local level»

Ms. Olena, let’s start with something very relevant for us journalists. Doesn’t Luxoft Ukraine still have a separate PR department? Will this change in the future?

We currently have this function global. We are currently aligning processes across DXC Technology (which bought Luxoft back in 2019 — ed.). DXC Technology has 120,000 people, and Luxoft has a little over 16,000. So, compared to them, we are a very small company.

They have their own structure, according to which individual locations do not have their own PR services or separate employer branding, which was in Luxoft Ukraine before. We are now at a transformational stage, but I have hope that we will still return to the format that was before this.

These services may not be available in such large numbers, but they should still be available at the local level. I think this will gradually level out.

Currently, there are no separate specialists in Ukraine, and colleagues responsible for these functions are located in different locations that directly report to global marketing at DXC. Since DXC Technology is represented in more than 60 countries, respectively, the function can be located anywhere. Specifically, the function that manages all of Western Europe is located in Poland. There are also Ukrainian specialists there who manage our local pages, support the website, and so on.

By the way, regarding Ukrainian specialists abroad. How many Luxoft employees relocated to other countries during the full-scale operation? Perhaps some have already returned. How far is this process moving this way or that way as of now?

Of course, as of now, more are still «there». During the full-scale war, we relocated up to 600 specialists. It is clear that in the first year of the war there was a maximum number. Now, every year it is up to 50-60 specialists. And back, up to 50 specialists also returned during the full-scale war.

More than 500 specialists have so far remained outside Ukraine and continue to work there.

The company takes on a certain part of the relocation expenses. But in the first year of the war we took on much more. Now, of course, less. First, there are not so many cases anymore, and secondly, we already have a standardized approach to this.

«It won’t be the same as before. And this applies not only to Ukraine — the world is very unstable now.»

How would you characterize 2024 — is there a «light at the end of the tunnel»? According to the latest data from YouControl, Luxoft’s revenue in the 2024 calendar year amounted to UAH 5.5 billion and decreased by only a few percent compared to 2023.

Let’s wait a bit before summarizing, because the company lives by the fiscal year, not the calendar year. Our fiscal year just ended, on March 31st.

I can state that there is no growth. We have a kind of flat, which we have maintained over the last period. At one time, we had a slight drop due to the relocation of specialists and the fact that there were a few fewer clients. But now we are observing a flat. However, we will calculate the numbers and summarize in April.

Judging by the answers of top managers of IT companies to similar questions, such a flat rate is the current version of the norm, and not the worst. Is a return to the indicators that existed before the full-scale invasion already from the realm of science fiction or still realistic?

It will not be the same as before, and this applies not only to Ukraine — the world is very unstable now. We often look only at Ukraine, but our country is entering the global market.

We are currently witnessing great turbulence in global markets. We do not yet know how the trade war between the United States, China, Europe, Canada and a number of other countries will end. How will this affect the IT market? Will there be a global crisis?

We cannot consider Ukraine as a closed system. It cannot be that everywhere is bad, and in Ukraine it is good, or vice versa. It does not work that way. We are very integrated into the global market and IT — especially.

If you looked at the latest Digital Tiger report, then, in principle, nothing has changed and the main client of our IT sector is still the United States of America market. How will relations and contracts with the USA develop, what will influence this? No one can imagine yet.

There are simply scenarios that we take into account. Conventionally, there is a realistic, optimistic and worst case scenario. Of course, we want to think about the optimistic scenario when the war ends, and it is precisely this that is the main cornerstone that slows down the development of IT, compared to the pre-war period.

But even if the war ended tomorrow, it would take us two to three years to start renewing our contracts and reassuring our clients that we are a completely safe location and everything is fine with us.

This recovery will not happen immediately. It also depends on what the state will do for it.

In a realistic scenario, we assume that the current year 2025 will be flat, when there will be no massive outflow of business. But, again, everything will depend on the situation in the global market, because Goldman Sachs recently increased its forecasts of recession and crisis from 20%+ to 45%.

So there is no simple answer to this question. Will we grow, will it be flat, will we decrease? It all depends on the scenarios! And each time we refine them, we have a whole committee that works with these scenarios across Ukraine.

We definitely understand that the end of the war and a long-term peace will affect business. In this scenario, we are starting to grow a little. But it is obvious that we will experience a very serious personnel shortage due to the outflow of talent.

It’s no secret that well-educated guys go abroad before they’re 18, and universities there are happy to accept them. Will they come back? A lot depends on state programs. What can we offer? If Ukraine has better conditions and salaries, and companies are actively developing, then, of course, they will come back. But for now, this is an open question.

And there will definitely be political challenges, which still exist today — they will affect taxation and regulatory changes. I mean how the state will look at the IT sector after the war, after the post-war elections and a possible reformatting of the government.

Therefore, for now, we expect, under good conditions, a flat year, not growth or a sharp decline, but the industry will continue to develop qualitatively due to DeepTech and DefenseTech. Part of the sector will definitely develop very actively due to startups, in particular solutions for the army and DefenseTech.

«The standard of living that IT specialists had in Ukraine is very difficult to maintain in Europe»

You have wondered whether the «technological» youth currently studying in Europe will return to Ukraine. But isn’t Ukraine expecting an even larger and unprecedented exodus of specialists after the war, as predicted by, for example, the CEO of the Lviv IT cluster?

Maybe this is one of the scenarios, but in my opinion it is not the most realistic. Even if our specialists try to leave en masse for a while, a significant part of them will still be forced to return. Not all of them will be waiting abroad. What do I mean?

Olena Samborska — center. Photo Facebook IТ Ukraine Association

For example, the United States has now effectively closed visas, so Ukrainians are unable to enter there en masse and work there legally. And we cannot work with illegal specialists.

If you are an international company, then you legalize everyone and formalize everyone according to your legislation. If this is, conditionally, Poland, then you will not be able to work with a Ukrainian sole proprietor, you need to hire a person for a Polish legal entity. And imagine, for example, that Poland terminates its program for simplified obtaining of work permits for IT specialists.

There are also many other factors that can influence the decision to return or not. Even under current conditions, Ukraine remains a fairly comfortable country in many respects, and it will definitely be so after the war. Many specialists have already seen that medicine is not so simple in Europe, and with kindergartens and schools. You can adapt to everything and get used to it. But the standard of living that IT specialists had in Ukraine is very difficult to maintain in Europe.

Of course, there is a scenario where many of them will just take their laptops and leave. But there are other alternative scenarios.

«Currently, about 2% of military personnel are booked at Luxoft Ukraine. At the same time, about 7% of our people are in the Defense Forces.»

How is the booking situation developing at Luxoft? Despite all efforts, companies usually fail to book more than 1-5% of employees. And how much does it take to make work stable and predictable?

There is a reality, and there are our desires. The reality is that there is a war in the country. And if we want to defend our independence, then someone has to fight. And not just «someone», but it is still a constitutional duty of a citizen.

At the same time, now we have at least a completely working procedure that goes through electronic services, compared to the situation when we waited a month or more for booking orders. Here it is appropriate to thank the Ministry of Digital Affairs, which created a tool that allows people to book fairly quickly.

Are we satisfied with the conditions that we can only book 50% of those liable for military service? Probably, no leader will say that they are satisfied.

It is clear that every company would like to be able to book 70 to 85% of specialists. But is this realistic? No, our wishes are not yet realistic.

We have a working tool, but now Luxoft Ukraine has about 2% of its military personnel on reserve. At the same time, about 7% of our people are in the Defense Forces. Approximately 30 of our specialists have already returned. That is, if we count everyone, up to 10% of the total number of specialists were in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

How did your veteran re-boarding program, which you launched in 2023, work?

Some returned to Luxoft for their project, while others left for another. Some resigned and went to work in defense tech, because they had gained quite a lot of experience during their service, so it was closer to them. But most of the veterans stayed and continued to work with us.

We have a special ongoing program, Lux Reconnect, which is designed not only for those returning from war, but for the entire company. Because not only veterans need to be ready to return to civilian and professional life, but the team needs to be ready for the return of colleagues.

The manager must be ready to prepare the team himself. And the colleagues who are returning must be ready to start interacting not in the AFU team, but in the IT development team. For example, right now, for almost two and a half months, various meetings are being held aimed at different audiences of our colleagues. Separately, for managers who have to prepare the team for the return of our colleagues from the ranks of the AFU, separately — for colleagues who are currently in the army, and separately — for those who are already returning from the war. This program includes, among other things, the possibility of consultations with psychologists.

This year, we also launched a separate program on inclusion for the children of our employees, where we teach them to communicate with people with disabilities. This is necessary so that our children, starting from the age of 6-7, learn not to look away, but to react correctly and adequately to the situation. This is a separate program that we launched as part of the Kids Hub.

Therefore, this is a multifaceted process. We need to talk not only about the integration of the veterans themselves, but also about the readiness of the entire society for the return of veterans.

«After the war, people will want to come to the offices themselves, because there is a need to communicate and be in society»

In the US and some other countries, a trend towards people returning to offices is starting to actively manifest itself. How do you assess this trend, although in Ukraine, of course, due to the war, there are some nuances? Is this relevant for Ukrainian Luxoft in the foreseeable future?

If we are talking about a global trend, then yes, it exists. But it is a pendulum — first it swung in one direction, now it is swinging in the other. I think that this pendulum will soon find some balance, and we will still have a mixed format.

As for the global company DXC Technology, we also have such a trend now. But it is more of a call to spend time with the team, do team building, etc. At the same time, for Luxoft Ukraine this trend is still completely irrelevant.

We do not encourage our people to come to the offices because we believe that each person should be in the safest place for them. Although our offices have bomb shelters and all the necessary equipment, we leave this decision to the individual. If they want to come to the office, it is open 24/7. If not, we do not force or even encourage it.

And what will happen after the war? I think that after the war, people will want to come to the offices from time to time, because there is a need for communication and to be in society. At the very least, some kind of team building will probably be organized for different teams, but you also need to keep in mind that teams are sometimes very distributed. Sometimes it happens that in Ukraine there is only one person from the team, and the rest of the people work in other countries — Poland, Romania or India. Therefore, for such teams, even when it comes to team building, online remains the only option.

Your company was one of those that opened temporary offices after the start of full-scale operations, which had the format of a kind of «points of invincibility.» Are any of them still operating today?

Short answer: no, they don’t continue.

Long answer: we opened them because in the first weeks and months of the full-scale war, a very large number of people left Kyiv, Dnipro, Odessa and went to Western Ukraine. Accordingly, we opened all these coworking spaces in the western part of Ukraine. Now people have mostly returned to their homes, respectively — our attendance at these offices would be simply zero now. Therefore, we decided to close them for now.

If the situation changes again, it is a very quick solution to open coworking spaces if they are needed and close them if they are not needed. In case of need, we have a list of coworking spaces in every city of Ukraine. So we can quickly conclude a contract with them, pay the money and open our offices again. But the format of such offices has existed for more than a year, and we believe that it was a very good decision.

And among your own specialists, did you promote some programs of conditional «energy independence» — so that, despite everything, you would know for sure that a person would be able to work with the Internet and some reserve of electricity?

After the start of the full-scale war, when the situation had stabilized a little and we started working more stably, we had our own tool, in which each person could create their own Personal Continuity Plan. And we encouraged employees to create such PCP plans. What does this mean?

If, for example, you need to move, then in this tula a person indicates whether they have their own car for this. They can also indicate, for example, whether they have the opportunity to work for 14 days in conditions of no electricity.

Many of those workers who live in private homes have purchased generators and we know for sure that they have a fuel supply for 14 days. That is, they can spend this time without central heating and electricity. We constantly discuss these issues during our town halls — previously it was done by weekly, now — monthly.

We also purchased several thousand good quality power stations for our employees, but of course they won’t be able to work for 14 days in a completely independent mode. But we distributed them to our teams and the company helped with that.

We regularly remind you of the need to have your own emergency plan, and also not to forget to indicate your location in internal systems.

«It is sometimes very difficult to explain cooperation with sole proprietors to international partners»

In one of your answers, you touched on the issue of relations with the state. What points of contact are there now, and where, on the contrary, do you find constructive?

I wouldn’t talk about points of contact, I would call it a subject for cooperation. Because unfortunately, we have enough clashes in this life. We need to learn to cooperate.

We have a lot of issues on which we are constructively cooperating with the state. We recently held a meeting with the Minister of National Unity on an important issue — how to return Ukrainians home after the war.

We continue to collaborate with our Ministry of Digital Transformation on various projects, including «Diya City».

There are certain points in the legislation that still need to be polished. They appear not because the legislation is bad, but because new cases are starting to appear.

Of course, last year there was this situation with the increase in military levies. On the one hand, the inviolability of the «Diya City» regime was guaranteed, so, of course, this adds risks to Ukraine as a location in terms of financial instability and non-compliance with guaranteed conditions. And this definitely does not create a favorable atmosphere for attracting new clients.

But, on the other hand, we all understand why it happened. That’s why we discussed it a lot, but we all pay the military fee together. I hope that the war will end soon, and as far as I understand, we will be able to return to the conditions that were originally specified in the law.

And there are quite a lot of such issues in each direction. For example, with the Ministry of Education through our associations, we cooperate on joint projects to revise curricula.

Many IT directors and owners of IT companies have now joined university supervisory boards. In particular, I also joined the new supervisory board of Chernivtsi National University.

Many IT managers are also participating in a dialogue with the Ministry of Education regarding programs for secondary and junior high schools so that more and more children know mathematics at a high level and can take exams for higher education institutions and their mathematics or physics faculties.

That is, this is such systemic work that, perhaps, is not particularly visible, but at the same time, these are points of intersection between the IT industry and the authorities. Therefore, here I would talk about dialogue and cooperation, not about points of contact.

Regarding the «City Action» mode, how do you evaluate the gig contract tool after it has been in operation for some time? How popular has it become for Luxoft?

It depends on the project. We have launched a pilot, and up to a hundred of our specialists are gig contractors. At the same time, the company is undergoing very active transformation processes, so we have slowed down the transition from sole proprietors to gig contracts a little.

But as soon as we straighten out the situation regarding the merger of Luxoft and our parent company DXC Technology, we will immediately return to this project.

As far as I know, the number of gig contractors is increasing across the industry, just as the number of full-time employees is increasing. So I think this trend will only grow.

If you are an international company, then the terms of gig contracts are clear to your international partners. Because explaining cooperation with sole proprietors is sometimes very difficult. Our international partners are ready to accept this, so this regime really has a great future. The main thing is that the state continues to support it and leave it unchanged.

«In routine tasks, AI saves about 10-15% of my working time. That’s a lot.»

Let me ask you a few more questions about the hottest thing in the modern technological world — artificial intelligence. How serious are the concerns that AI will eventually take the jobs of many IT professionals, especially junior-level ones?

I would divide these things. Let’s be honest — even before the advent of Artificial Intelligence, there was such a problem in IT, when juniors and interns did not want to be hired. Or rather, it is correct to say this — they were not as interesting in the market as mid-level or senior specialists.

Large companies have always created special programs like the Internship Program, as well as programs for junior specialists. When they were on projects, they were taught, paid extra attention to them, and conducted courses, so they gradually gained this experience.

Nothing has changed now. The only thing is that the number of such programs and specialists involved in these programs has become a little smaller. Is there an Internship Program at Luxoft now, during these three years, despite the war? There is! But if before there were hundreds of specialists, now there are dozens of specialists. The same thing is happening in other service companies, as far as I know.

We will still need middle and seniors, so large companies will invest in training juniors to the level they need. Another thing is that if we are talking about higher IT education, then it must be transformed so that after five years of study, not quite juniors come to work. It is not that you have to train them from scratch, but they already come with the knowledge and practical skills necessary for the market. But this is a matter for the Ministry of Education, which we discuss, offer our help, review curricula together. Again, we are part of the supervisory boards of universities. That is, I think that over time this issue will be resolved.

And as for artificial intelligence, how will it develop further, will it be able to write complex programs? For me, this is an open question, to be honest. Because we see different trends. And any new tool that appeared in previous times, like AI now, always had both pros and cons. So let’s see.

And what daily tasks can you personally delegate to artificial intelligence, if it’s not a secret?

It’s absolutely no secret. We use Copilot as standard in the company. What do I delegate to him? I entrust him with writing certain letters, especially in English.

It helps me with routine tasks. It also helps with tasks when I need to brainstorm, but I don’t have the opportunity to do it with a team. I do it with artificial intelligence, it helps me with some ideas that I can then develop. It also helps if I want to get information about something, but of course I still have to check this information, because artificial intelligence is not the most reliable source yet. But in routine tasks, AI saves about 10-15% of my working time. That’s a lot.

«Now the question is not so much to keep the specialist within the company, but to make his involvement greater»

And what can you say about the motivation of your own specialists, because it is measured not only in financial terms? It is also a sense of team spirit, additional opportunities for professional and personal growth, and so on. What programs does Luxoft have to motivate people to stay part of the team and not go to competitors?

I will divide this question into two parts. The market is very specific now, and frankly, it is an employer’s market. There are enough specialists in the market now, and therefore they are not inclined to change jobs very actively. But this does not mean that they are productive if they are not really involved in projects, if they do not like them, or if they do not have a good relationship with their manager.

Before the Great War, we were really focused on how to keep a person, because anyone could leave the company at any time and for each IT specialist there were up to 20 or more offers on the labor market, and you could find a job in half an hour. Of course, that’s not the case now. Therefore, the question here is not so much to keep a specialist within the company, but how to make his involvement greater.

And we are focused on that. So what do we do in the company? There are many different tools. If we start with a line specialist, it is, for example, giving him unlimited access to the Udemi resource, which is available to all Luxoft employees.

It’s also an opportunity for technical certifications, which are very important for professionals. Typically, these programs last several months, and this gives you the opportunity to simply move to the next level, having on your resume several official certificates from, say, Microsoft or other top companies that conduct these certifications.

We also have a separate ongoing soft skills program at LuxGood, which runs all year round, except for the summer months. We cover a variety of topics, inviting very interesting speakers who are experts in specific areas, from financial literacy to emotional intelligence.

Separately, we have a unique program for children of Luxoft employees, which is called KidsHub. Here our children learn programming, English, logic, mathematics. This program has been operating for more than five years. And this is also an additional connection with those children who went abroad and study there. After all, here they can receive free knowledge and take their first steps in Java or blogging. For example, learn to create and edit videos.

We have a separate program for working with managers, because a manager is responsible for people and for the results of the team. Accordingly, twice a month we hold workshops specifically for managers, where we work on how to better manage a team, how to better solve complex issues, and how to conduct difficult conversations. In other words, it’s all about development.

Are we achieving 100% engagement? Of course not. But the fact that we really have a very high level of engagement in Ukraine, despite all the conditions that exist now, is shown by objective research that we conduct twice a year.

We can actually be proud that our colleagues understand their responsibility, despite the additional psychological, moral, and physical strain when you can’t sleep at night due to enemy attacks, and then come and work with a client.

Therefore, we try to support our colleagues in various ways, we as a location show very high results in terms of engagement and effectiveness. Our clients continue to be amazed by everything we do for the third year in a row, and very often even forget that we have a war in Ukraine. Because for them, it all looks like business as usual. And this is the highest rating that a location can receive, in my opinion.

Luxoft is a company with a large number of locations. What are you hearing from colleagues and partners in different parts of the world now? Is there still the admiration for Ukrainian IT professionals, the moral support that was there in the first year of full-scale operation? What messages are you receiving?

We get a lot of moral support because our colleagues understand the state we are living in. Let’s say intellectually. But sometimes they can’t compare it to our daily reality and how we have been enduring it for over three years. They really admire it and think that Ukrainians are extraordinary. And it’s true:)

Speech to the audience, photo from Olena Samborska’s Facebook

We share with our colleagues our experience, how we work with risks, how our hotline works, information exchange, how these processes are developed within our company. But we ourselves do not want to provoke any specific attitude towards Ukraine.

On the contrary, we want to show the world that we are working as usual. Business, you can come to us! We work stably, we work without interruptions, we work at a high level of performance. Therefore, Welcome to Ukraine. This is the only thing we always say.

When they tell me, «Oh, we can’t come to you,» I, as the location manager, ask, «Why? We can organize a meeting, for example, in Lviv or another part of Western Ukraine, and it won’t be so stressful for you!» We invite everyone to Ukraine and offer to see with your own eyes how we work.

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